Time to Decide on a DCC System – UPDATED
Looking for suggestions…
I realize asking any “which system is best” DCC question is like asking which religion should I join, so hopefully this won’t break down into a non productive argument.
I am looking for advice from modelers who are familiar with a variety of systems and might have some advice on which system would work best for the type of layout I am building and will be operating.
Over the next several weeks I will be completing the trackwork on my CNJ Bronx Terminal layout and am at the point where I need to make some decisions on control.
Here is a list of what I require, which is a bit unique with this type of layout.
- Only one locomotive will ever operate on this layout at one time. Ever.
- DCC sound equipped engines will be operated (again, only one at a time)
- 30 turnouts powered with Tortoise machines
- approximately 30 individual and complex routes, some requiring the operation of up to 14 machines
The layout is a single operator layout that will be primarily used at shows. I intend on operating the layout in a prototype manner with some sort of switch list or card system. Typical operation will consist of selecting one of the 30 routes from a hand held throttle and switching that track. All equipment will use Sergent couplers, so manual operation of the couplers will be necessary, therefore reaching into the layout isn’t an issue. All tracks on the layout are accessible from one of 3 sides. I anticipate typical operation will involve walking the perimeter of the layout often to reach cars. There will be no stationary control panel on the layout, all operation is to be done using the hand held throttle.
The DCC system I will require MUST have quick and easy route selection ability. I would rather not have to spend time fiddling with more buttons than necessary to select a route, this should be able to be done quickly and intuitively.
Stationary decoders will be used to operate the 30 Tortoise machines on the layout. I am looking for a system that offers easy set up and configuration of the routes. The stationary decoders should be able to route power to the frogs independently of the switch machines if possible. If I can avoid using the contacts on the Tortoises for this it would make setting up the routes in this complex trackwork much more reliable.
An added bonus would be the ability to use a computer to pre-program the routes and the hand held unit to operate the layout (I don’t want to have a computer attached to the layout for operation).
All this said, any suggestions which system/stationary decoders would offer the most efficient operation and ease of use?
Currently I have an older Digitrax system, but have no issues purchasing any other system for this layout, the priority is reliable operation. So far, my experience with Digitrax has not been simple. Any system that shows me hexadecimal numbers might end up near the bottom of the list….
Contact me via email (tim@warris.com) or in the comments box below.
-T.
Update – May 11
I spent the weekend analyzing the layout and what I will be using it for.
I received a lot of feedback both here and at Model Railroad Hobbyist about this and have come to the conclusion that the best approach might be to use simple toggle switches on two control panels to operate the turnouts instead of using a more technological routing method.
Setting up the 30 or so routes for this complex yard will likely lead to a cumbersome method of operating. I would have to memorize the routes, and in the end I think I would lose some flexibility of operation if limited to pre-set routes. Having individual control of each turnout would add the flexibility required for this type of layout.
My last layout, The Port Kelsey Ry, I used route selection on the control panels, with a diode matrix to set the routes. This worked very well for the type of yards I was operating, and made operation much more intuitive. Although the amount of work required to set this up was staggering!
This is 1/4 of the electrical panel required to make the main yard work (it had a bit of complex track on it too). The far left is the diode matrix portion.
I will make up a couple neat looking control panels, and install them into the rusty fascia of the layout, something similar to this…
I played with lots of different possibilities for turnout control, from a laser pointer activated turnout, to a push button switch stand to a magnetically activated turnout, but decided to go with toggles as I really don’t want the layout to be about how the turnouts are operated. Will keep those projects for something else….
For a DCC system, I will likely stick with my Digitrax, and get a DT-400R throttle. For a sound equipped locomotive, this should work well.
-Tim
About the Author:
I'm your host, Tim Warris, a product developer in Port Dover, Ontario. Since March of 2007 I have been documenting the construction of the former CNJ Bronx Terminal in HO scale. For my day job, I design track building tools for Fast Tracks, a small company I own and operate. Fast Tracks makes it fast and easy to hand lay your own trackwork. Stop by our website to learn more!
Posted by: Tim | 05-09-2009 | 01:05 PM
Posted in: Latest Posts | Track Construction
Tim,
A thought might be to ask the individual DCC providers to quote on the system, given your parameters? As it will be “primarily used in shows”, then might be interested in your use of their system too, to show it off?
I have used just about every DCC system, and they’re all pretty good. Any impressions of Digitrax based on the DT100 throttles should be thrown out, since the newer throttles are MUCH easier to use (and you’ll probably use a computer to handle programming anyway: see JMRI & DecoderPro as a place to start).
I question your attempt to use route selection from a handheld in order to do operations. While it works, it really distracts from the concepts of running a railroad. You spend more time fiddling with a controller than moving the trains, especially for a switching layout.
Providing fascia controls for each turnout really works well. You can still tie them into an automatic system and use routes from the handheld as well as the fascia controls. But it’s much easier to look at a particular switch you need to throw, and select and throw it.
On the other hand, you’ve got this nice fascia treatment already, but I’d still put in a pushbutton or toggle for each turnout. Not in a stationary panel, but near each switch (since you’ll need to be near it anyway to work that track).
Even with a single engine and a small layout, consider a wireless throttle. Not needing to plug in whenever you move around is really good for switching layouts. It again lets you focus on the operations.
I use a Digitrax system with a UT4 throttle. I never have to look at the throttle during operation. The same can be said for the CVP wireless throttle, which works best with a Lenz command station (imo).
I haven’t seen any throttle that works well with route selection.
Hi Tim,
This would be a great challenge for all of the DCC suppliers at the National Train Show in Hartford, Conn. in July. I’ll ask Jacques Thuot to have a look since he has worked with several of the DCC systems on the market today and knows what the “pros” and “cons” are associated with each of them. I’d also suggest that you ask Bob Liberman for his input.
I’m hoping to have the layout operating for the NMRA Train Show in July. It would be great to have the various manufacturers look at it and see who has the best solution, but the trade off would be not having it operational for the show.
Since the layout will be displayed in public quite a bit, I will likely be contacting the manufacturer of the system I use, as it will suit them well to get on board the promotional possibilities of this layout. Wink wink.
Dave Z, Good advice. Not having used a hand held unit (I should have mentioned that it will be a cordless throttle) I am not sure what it is like to operate without any control panels. The problem with a stationary panel is just that, its stationary and I will be moving around a lot when operating.
-T.
Tim,
I’m not personally convinced that DCC is the best way to end up running large numbers of stationary decoders. I am not sure how easy C/MRI would be, but it may be easier to deal with for setting large numbers of routes (as per above, up to 14 turnouts/route) rather than DCC. I know that it is certainly possible to route set in DCC using computer software, as I am running RR&Co to do just that on my home layout. There are 2 seperate things on the go here, one is the route setting, and one is the actual train control.
I think everyone who comments would be able to say that the ease of use of the F buttons on the controller is going to be important for the use of a sound equipped engine. (I’m taking it CNJ 1000 with sound is going to be the primary engine…). I like the Digitrax 400 throttle I have, but it is bloody big. It does give direct access to switches and F keys though…
For route setting, I can think of a couple of ways to make this work.
— I know Digitrax allows the use of master turnouts, which then would casecade the turnout control of the route. I am NOT sure that you can control as many as 14 turnouts in a single action. (so, you would have turnouts 1-30 used to describe routes, and you would select the route & away you go).
— I know this can be implemented using software (I use RR&Co 5.0C, but I understand that JMRI allows similar actions…the cost of RR&Co 7.0 is quite staggering)
–I don’t have experience in any other environments, so I can’t comment on how any other environment would work. The layout is fixed for track formation, so it should be possible to use the route editing features built into Digitrax stationary decoders to operate.
As regards power routing the frogs, I don’t know of any stationary decoders except “The Hare” which do this. They seem expensive for what they are- I would think a relay driven off one set of contacts on a Tortose would be a cheaper investment.
Again, there are multi paths which I can see being workable for this, and it would depend on your comfort as to which one is best for you. Some ideas/options are:
1. DS44’s/JMRI/Laptop
2. DS54’s (now hard to get)/direct programmed
3. DS64’s/Direct programmed. Probably the best according to what you want above.
–I’d be sorely tempted to go with DS44’s, and JMRI or RR&Co, running a laptop to manage the interconnection between the layout and the handheld. I take it you are going to be using a computer to generate the switchlists anyway, so it’s not another piece of kit to bring with you. It isn’t the solution you want though, as it means that you need a computer connected to the layout to get route setting.
One of your readers might be tempted to do the software- I would be if I was in Ontario at all, but it is a bit far from BC to come and play trains…
James Powell
TIm,
I’m going NCE for my shelf switchin glayout, using the basic Power Cab 2amp set-up. I may get a smart booster for 3 amp total control, but only if I actually get more then one train running at a time. NCE makes a wireless throttle version, and i think it comes as it’s own set.
I can’t give you any insight on route selection as I’m doing all of mine manually from the front of the layout using Hump Yard Purveyance throws. But I can tell you that O chose NCe because I find it 1) intuitive to use, 2) well layed out to us ein my hand, 3) forgiving of rookie mistakes, and 4) with the power cab version I can get into a DCC set up for about $200 American, including enough decoders to make switching fun with 2 or 3 loco’s. I’ll probably convert my whole fleet eventually.
Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.
Tim,
If you haven’t already considered them have a look at the SmartSwitch. I have a set with the frog power router and they work exactly as advertised. When looking at the pricing remember that each kit will operate FOUR turnouts and even includes the four miniature toggles switches.
http://www3.telus.net/ChinaRail/Smartswitch.html
I have no relationship with this company other than being a satisfied customer.